HOME   People do good because they are human, not because they are religious! 

Do not give God any credit for the good they do, they did it!

 

Question "Is good good without God or not?" How it shows God worship is indirect self-worship

If we want to believe in God we must want it for it is best for us or moral.
 
Does God command what is right because it is right? Then God is not God or boss for he has to obey moral law but he doesn’t make it. He only conforms to it. In that case, belief in God or non-belief has nothing to do with morality. God is irrelevant to morality. God doesn’t make morality to be morality. You can be moral without God. You would even have the right to disagree with God on right and wrong for its independent of him!
 
If morality cannot exist unless there is a God to command it then he invents it and has the power to make raping babies for no reason good. This view is against commonsense and if belief in God requires it, belief in God is evil. In that case there is no real morality but we just pretend that God’s wishes are morality.
 
God either creates right and wrong or they are there whether he exists or not. Christians say that both of these options is unacceptable and bad (page 76, The Handbook of Christian Apologetics **). Their answer is that morality is based on the way God is (page 76). That is not an answer at all. You might as well say morality is morality because it is. Indeed it would be wiser to say that than to say, morality is based on God because God is a moral God - that is just the way he is.
 
To stop people worrying that if something becomes right just because God commands it, they say he never commands anything malicious or harmful. They deny he arbitrarily invents sins to condemn. We see that they do not really think that God merely commanding something makes it harmless. If God limits his inventing of right and wrong to what is harmless then he is not being arbitrary. He is condemning things for the pain they cause and not just because he wants them to be wrong.
 
Believers say that without God, the rules of morality are subjective and about preference. In other words, unless there is a God to declare things right or wrong, we will do this declaring ourselves and it will be based on banning what we do not like. But if we are only doing what God does then he is as subjective as us! Christians talk as if giving only God the right to decree morality means the morality is objective. It does not. Trying to put a limit on morality does not turn it into an objective morality. A morality with rules can still be subjective. And a subjective morality will still be made up of rules. Believers confuse attempts to declare the rules unchangeable and fixed with an objective morality. While it is true that objective morality has fixed rules that cannot change with the fashions it does not follow that all moral codes with rules are objective. As we have seen, subjective morality lays down rules that it won't change too.
 
They say morality is God’s character and it cannot change for God cannot change. To put it another way, somehow God and morality are one and the same. Morality is God - it is a person. They say there is no real morality unless it is a person. This makes the error of assuming that just because morality is abstract and not a thing or person that it is no good. The number 100 is not a thing but it is totally useful. Most people might feel that morality needs to be a thing. And the Christian philosophers are taking advantage of their desire to fool them. They know fine well morality being a thing would mean it is not morality at all but something else. It would be as mad as saying the statue of liberty is the number 100.
 
Even if morality is a person and that person is God, God either makes the moral law or he doesn’t in which case it exists whether there is a God or not. For example, if there were no God or anything it would still be true that murder is bad even if there are no people to be murdered. Belief in God denies this truth for it denies that morality is independent of God so the Christians in fact, despite pretending they don’t, do actually believe that morality is invented by God. To say morality is not independent of God but is his character and one with him is the same as saying that God invents morality except the idea that he is this morality makes it worse. A God that invented morality would be bad enough but one that was identical with this invention would be worse. Belief in God is intrinsically evil. Saying God is morality solves nothing. Even if God is morality: the question, is God the maker of morality or is he not, is still left unanswered. The Christians are deceiving us with their strange answers that are not answers at all but just nonsense dished up in the hope that we will stop asking questions.
 
To say that God is the same thing as kindness is ridiculous for kindness is not a thing or a power but an abstract quality. It doesn’t exist any more than the number two exists. Yes we know what kindness is but it is not a thing like a Christmas cake. If God is kindness then God doesn’t exist.
 
If morality is a person then knowing this comes before knowing any moral detail such as the wrongness of murder or rape. It has to be prioritised. The details should only be discussed once people get it that morality is God and God is morality. If morality is a person then knowing and honouring that person comes first. Also, nobody can understand morality or really have morality unless they know and believe that morality is God and God is real. Until that happens, what they have is something that looks like it but is not it. We see that since most Christians don't even know they should care about this issue then they are functionally no better than us atheists!
 
Let us examine the relationship between God and goodness. Believers can't give a reason as to how good could be real if God makes good good. They merely feel that God is the creator of the laws of real good and real evil. They have to feel God into existence. The God they worship is the product of their feelings. They mean to worship good when they worship God. But good is not God. If you worship good as God then this is projecting what you see as good into the deity. The idolaters worshipped images because of their beauty and because they symbolised wonderful things such as fertility.
 
To say that God and morality are the same is to say that there is no morality without belief in God. It is to deny the fact that they are not the same for even if there was nothing, hurting people for no reason would be bad. This in itself shows more concern for God and believing in him than in morality. Its evil. The only moral justification for believing in God is to help yourself and others and him. Not caring about right and wrong means that the reason you believe in God is not because you care about him so its not a good reason you have for believing!
 
If God is real and he is good and this goodness is his primary quality, then it follows that the nearest we can get to knowing him is by recognising goodness and finding it in our hearts. Miracles and religious experiences and scriptures cannot substitute for that. We should not be looking for or depending on mystical experiences. Even then we are knowing him indirectly. Why? Because God and goodness are not the same thing. Good is not good because God says it is good. It is good because it is good. The risk of psychological projection would be extremely high. We could be confusing our own ideas about good with God.
 
Love the sinner and hate the sin is utter nonsense and makes the whole Christian scheme collapse. If we are sinners God cannot love us and cannot be good.
 
God is said to be perfect love. Love cannot be perfect so God cannot be love. The attraction to God then is based on wishful thinking, "I want perfect love to exist though it cannot. I want there to be a God of perfect love therefore there is one." This is not a God based on truth but on what you would like him to be. He is your idol.
 
Belief in God is not about morality but about self-interest of the worst kind. God is just worshipped as a cover for self-interest. To worship a God who does not care about the self-interest is to feed that self-interest and honour it.


If you are in a position to judge God as the perfect role model then you must be even more perfect than your perfect God for you are claiming to be in a position to judge. The humility you have is really arrogant self-aggrandizement. The God you adore can be seen in the mirror. 


** Handbook of Christian Apologetics, Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli, Monarch Publications, East Sussex, 1995
 
Eternal Life? Hans Kung, Collins, London, 1984
 
And Man Created God, Is God a Human Invention? Robert Banks, Lion, Oxford, 2011
 
Then Man Created God: The Truth about Believing a Lie, D.G. McLeod, 2009
 
God without Religion, Questioning Centuries of Accepted Truths, Sankara Saranam, Benbella, Dallas, Texas, 2008
 
The Case for Faith, Lee Strobel, Zondervan, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 2000