HOME   People do good because they are human, not because they are religious! 

Do not give God any credit for the good they do, they did it!

 

THE BIBLE GOD'S LOVE FOR YOU IS TWISTED

The Bible teaches that God is love. It says God hates his enemies (Psalm 5:5). It says he is a God of wrath (John 3:36). He loves all but loves some more than he loves others (Romans 9:13). So God is love but not just love. He is also justice and mercy and jealousy and even revenge (Romans 12:19). The Christian solution to all this perplexing disarray is that God expresses five different kinds of love. His universal love is the love he has for all people. His redemptive love is the love by which he saves some and not all. He loves by covenant when he keeps the promises he made us. He loves as a parent when we become his adopted children. He loves us intimately when we are not only saved and washed from sin but when we obey him.

LOVE IS NOT PERFECT

Human nature seeks love but in fact it is not perfect and has a dangerous side.  Buddhism says that it is compassion we should focus on not love.

A man's love for his wife can lead to him killing somebody who offends her. Or he may end up her slave if she has materialistic tastes.

Love for a person involves love for them as a person and their goodness will also be loved.  We respond lovingly to good characteristics in a person even if we do not love the person as a person.

Christians say love is not liking but valuing the person as to do good for them.

WHAT ABOUT GOD'S UNCONDITIONAL LOVE?
 
Most of Christianity teaches that God loves us unconditionally for two reasons.
 
1 Because he is the kind of person that wants to do that.
2 Because it is the only kind of love we can get and need for we don’t deserve any blessing.
 
Many theologians disagree with the second reason because rights are based on needs and you can’t have a right to God’s love. God could do good for you without loving you so you don’t need his love. Besides, this love which will mean that God wishes you well is ridiculous for it means that God wants you to get away with your sins and be rewarded for them which is not love at all according to the Bible which says that love must agree with justice to be true love.
 
It is one thing to love a person unconditionally when they are a mixture of bad and good but another if they are good for nothing. Unconditional love can be a way of trying to inspire a person to leave their sins behind but that is only sensible if there is a good chance it will work. Otherwise you are just encouraging them to be useless.
 
No verse in the Bible teaches that God loves unconditionally. The Bible speaks of God’s redemptive love which is the love with which he wants to save sinners so that he can hate them no more. It speaks of his covenant love by which he keeps his promises. It speaks of his intimate parental love which is love in the full sense. So whenever the Bible speaks of divine love it does not always mean the same kind of love. A God who won’t make Hell where sinners go to be punished forever like an eternal party is not a God who loves unconditionally but conditionally. If we are to love the sinner and hate the sin it follows that we should feel terrible about the souls in Hell. This means Heaven is as bad as Hell pain-wise. The only difference is that there is no sin in the first place. Obviously the doctrines of Heaven and Hell deny that you should love the sinner and hate the sin. Sinners are punished in Hell and in jail not sins for you can’t make sins pay for what they did, you can only make people pay. You punish people not sins. We say you punish yourself when you drink too much or whatever but that is not making yourself pay for your sins so it is not really punishing yourself. You are not doing it to punish. Jesus called Hell everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) so God punishes there forever.

Jesus’s statement that all men will know his disciples by how they love one another is fascinating (John 13:34). Notice he does not say they will know Jesus’ disciples by how they love them! No the love is between disicple and disciple. If anybody outside of that gets love then it is not worth being thankful for. If love is true and genuine it will never fade out (1 Corinthians 13:8). In fact to limit love is to partly oppose it and set it up for petering out.
 
Real unconditional love cannot be forced. It is something you voluntarily choose to do. Some theologians even question that God’s love can be unconditional when he is the kind of being that does this meaning he cannot be any different. It’s his nature so not his choice so it is not real love! He would need to be capable of not loving at all for this love to be real voluntary love. But he is not. God would know that his nature forces him to love and being so intelligent would realise that this is not real love at all. It’s forced and he lies to himself that it is unconditional love. So if God loves anybody unconditionally he must actually be able to hate.
 
Religion counsels us to hate the sin but love the sinner. Hate means to dislike intensely and with violence of emotion, not necessarily action. It is really treating sin like a thing. To hate a thing like sin is irrational. You cannot hate a thing and be rational. When we hate a thing it is because an irrational emotion has kicked in. The hate is emotional but it is not us being truly ourselves. Proper hate involves and necessitates us being truly ourselves. Religion warns that you can hate the sinner and imagine you hate the sin not the sinner. Religion warns that hatred of sin easily becomes hatred of the sinner. Logically, the more you hate sin the more easily you might hate the sinner and be in denial. The more you hate the sin the more likely you are to be a danger to the sinner and hate the sinner. Jesus said in Matthew 5 right at the heart of the Sermon on the Mount that if your eye makes you lust for a woman and lust is a sin that you must hate the sin of lust so much that you would gouge the eye out. Some take him literally but all agree that whatever he meant he was commanding an intense hatred for sin. We know that when we hate sin we cannot leave the person out for sins don't happen on their own. They are what people do and they reflect and reveal the kind of persons they are, whether they are bad or good people. To advocate hatred of sin is to advocate hatred of the sinner. The person is the sin in a real sense. The more people want you to hate sin the more they put you at risk of hating the sinner even if the sinner can sometimes be loved and his sin hated. To advocate extreme abhorrence for sin as Jesus did is advocating hatred of the sinner and leading to it.
 
The Bible says that God hates unsaved sinners. It says it so many times that we know we can be certain it teaches that so any interpretation of the Bible verses that seem to say God loves sinners should be interpreted in the light of these. And even more so when the ones that seem to speak of his universal love are in the minority. Only three verses in the Bible seem to say that God loves everybody. They are, the one in which we are told that God so loved the world that he gave his only Son so that anyone who believes in him could have eternal life, John 3:16, and the one which says that God wants all to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, 1 Timothy 2:4, and the one where we are told that God so loved us that while we were still sinners he saved us which is Romans 5:8.
 
In John 3:16, Jesus is telling Nicodemus who thought that only Jews could be saved that anybody in the world who believes could be saved. He said that God so loved the world that all who believe will be saved meaning that all who believe are the world that God loves. God hates the rest. “God so loved all that he sent his Son so that all who believe in him have eternal life”. He does not love the unbelievers for he could save them because of their sincere desire for divine forgiveness and their sincerity. So love must stand for do good. It has to mean that God did good for the world in sending his Son but strictly speaking he hates the world for it is sinful. You can hate your enemy and love him in the sense that you give him some opportunity to turn to you in reconciliation.
 
God so loved the world in giving his Son to the world. That is what we are told. But you could hate your enemy’s guts but love him so much that you gave him your dinner because he was starving.
 
God does love all he made in the sense that if he hated it, it would not exist. He loves the damned so far as he allows them to exist and regards them as nice creations but hates them for what they do with this niceness – they twist it and become evil. The world could stand for creation. The verse can be taken this way, “God so loved the creation that he gave his only Son to it so that anybody who believes in his Son has eternal life.” This means he might love to keep his evil creations in existence but he still hates them for being evil. To give his Son is an honour to his creation.
 
Paul’s disciple in the Bible says that God wants all to be saved and know the truth for there is one mediator, Jesus, who is the only way to God (1 Timothy 2:4). He means all who can know the mediator and respond to him. It does not refer to all on earth.
 
Even if it did it would make no difference. God could hate sinners and love them in the sense that he knows they will change if he saves them from sin and wants them to change. But that is why we hate people for they won't change to please us. It doesn't make our hate any less real. Perhaps God wishes he could save them all though he has to hate them. He hates them now but he does not let that hate stop him from making it possible to love them later. The love for what they will be is the reason he makes their salvation possible now not the love for what they are. This is the explanation for the Romans verse (5:8) as well and it is the only explanation for the persons referred to as being loved are clearly those who have embraced the gospel in sincerity and have been saved by it. Many believe that God hates all sinners except sinners he has predestined to salvation. He loves them in their sins now for he sees they will be saved. In other words, their sins are paid for unlike those who will never be saved so he has nothing to hate them for though they are sinners now. But this view is not in the Bible at all. The Bible says we are under God’s wrath until we are saved. God could hate you even if your sins are paid for on the basis that the payment has not been activated yet. It has not been appropriated. He could save you to stop hating you not because he loves you now but because he loves you in the sense that he wants to help you so that he can love you properly. Love that is not just intimate but involves approval of the other person’s actions is more real than love that disapproves because the intimacy is harmed and because to disapprove of the sin a person commits is to disapprove of the person. In so far as you reduce love you increase hate or not caring about the person. The idea of a God that always cares is too ridiculous for words and yet if the Church knew what it was talking about and taught a more honest God who didn’t love unconditionally it would lose most of its members. If it is comfort you want and if you want to feel loved and cherished then God is not the answer.
 
The bit in the Sermon on the Mount and in the Gospel of Luke (Luke 6:27-36) where Jesus says we must love our enemies for God gives earthly blessings even to the wicked refers to enemies who sincerely mean well but just are against us for the wrong reasons. Since God gives blessings to the wicked not for their sake but for the good people among them it is clear that Jesus is not saying you go out of your way to help your enemies. You help them when you could be doing the good harm if you don’t. Even people who hate their enemies and believe they should agree with that. By love Jesus means do good to not value. Jesus was not saying God loved the wicked. Rather he was denying it.
 
Jesus telling us to love our enemies does not mean God loves them. We are not God and we don’t know the things he knows but he knows everything. Because we can’t judge like he can we have to be nice to bad people for we don’t know if he hates them much or not.

GOD HATES THOSE WHO HATE HIM

The Bible is clear that God hates those who hate him. It is equally clear that we are not to love God’s enemies. We are told to be good to our own enemies only when we have to be to prevent the just from suffering.

In some places it says that God hates bad people even before they turn bad.  Romans 9:13 says, “Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” Paul explains that this was God’s view even before either of them were born (9:11). Romans 9:14-23 says that because God does not owe us anything and we deserve only suffering and death that God is right to love one person and not another just because he wants to. He can love A less than B too. Now in so far as you don’t love somebody that is to the extent you hate them or don’t care about them or you both hate and don’t care. Thus the Bible plainly teaches that God can love you a bit but so little that he hates you. He might just as well not love you at all for all the practical difference it makes. So it is foolish to be comforted by the thought that the Bible God loves you for it might be of very little comfort if you knew just how little he loved you. It would be arrogance and blasphemy to suppose that God loved you a lot.
 
All who hate one another wish that they did not and that the persons would change so they love in a sense. God could wish the wicked would change but refuse to succumb to this wish. It is because this wish is present that he is able to hate perfectly. You only hate a person when they won’t use the good you see in them.
 
Proverbs 11:20 and Psalm 5:5 and several other places state that God hates sinners as does Romans 9:13-15. 2 Chronicles has God saying through a prophet that anybody who helps the ungodly incurs the anger of God. The context shows that the king who this threat was directed at did no real harm. It show that the king would not have helped the ungodly in such a way that he would have been assisting them in destroying his people or him. And the prophet said that God’s problem was not any risk like that but the fact that people who did not cherish God were treated with a bit of kindness. They might have been unbelievers but that does not make them bad or any worse than the people of God and the king knew that.
 
The Catholic Church added vindictive books to the Bible. Sirach 4:5,6 warns that if you ignore the poor man and he gets bitter and calls on God to curse you then God will hear his prayer. Wisdom 14:8,9 states that the idol and the maker of the idol are accursed and goes on to say that the reason is that the ungodly man and his ungodliness are equally hateful to God. No loving the sinner and hating the sinner there. The verse proves that loving the sinner and hating the sin is just a theory that has permeated the Church but is not to be considered to be correct or authorised teaching. This does not contradict Wisdom 11:24 which says that God makes nothing that he hates. You can be made to be loved and earn God's hatred. Wisdom says that the children of adulterers will have no consolation when judged by God - Wisdom 3:18.
 
To say that the Bible forbids hating sinners though it commanded the cruel execution of gays and Atheists and other people that God wanted out of the way is total blindness. We see how wrong it is to say that hate is wrong while cruel actions like that are not. It would be better to hate others than to kill them. We see here how the Bible seeks to turn morality upside down. We have more references to God’s hatred for sinners than we have for his alleged love for them and the latter verses are misinterpreted so nowhere does the Bible say that God loves sinners. If it did the minority verses would have to be interpreted in the context of the majority verses meaning that we would have to take the love non-literally and the hate literally and not vice-versa as many Christians do.
 
Christians say that since we do not know who will be saved we have to love everybody and only God can hate sinners for only he knows who will be saved and who will not be. But it is a contradiction to say you value a person as a potential saint. That is valuing what God wants and not the person. It is putting the qualities before the person to the person being left out if the equation. It is denying the fundamental principle of real right and wrong in which field the Bible has no competence whatsoever, that the person is the absolute value. If the person is the absolute value then a God who creates the laws that lead to death and everlasting torment is wholly evil.
 
The Bible says that those who die estranged from God will suffer in Hell forever and are put beyond repentance. If you could condone that you could condone anything. God must do something to them to stop them repenting and turning to him. With doctrines like that it makes no sense to forbid hatred. It is worse to wish that your faith be true even though the faith says that X will go to Hell if he dies in sin than to wish that X would fall and break a leg.
 
GOD AND PUNISHMENT

God may have to punish in this world to restrain sinners but that is only necessary because of the kind of world it is. He could make another world and populate it with people in force fields where nobody can harm anybody else.
 
Punishment is certainly an evil. It is not a nice thing even if it is necessary. It does not change the evil inside the person unless the person decides to change so it is really the person who can change. Punishment may educate and inspire change but these things can be done without it. Though it is good to try and convert through punishment on earth - when we have to punish we may as well try to change the person through it - punishment is adding the evil of suffering to the evil in somebody's heart and the evil they have inflicted. It doubles the evil. It is worse to commit theft in a country that will jail you for it for then you are not just committing the evil of theft but committing the evil of pulling evil on yourself by the risk of jail. Theft is not so bad where you will get away with it as long as you stop doing it.
 
God should make it possible for the person to have the bad intention but do no harm with it for he makes it possible for the person to evade any punishment by repentance.  Though it is good to will the punishment of the evil in the person on paper it is bad in practice. There is some sense in saying the person should be punished but there is not enough sense in it to justify punishing. To make sense of this perhaps this parable will be of assistance: A woman murdered her lover in cold blood. She deserves death because she killed him. That is pure logic. But it does not mean we should kill her. One way it does but because you cannot destroy a person for a person is valuable even after they take a life so you cannot do it. This implies that the welfare of the person is more important than punishing them. The person comes before the punishment. It implies that God has no business punishing anybody once they leave this world and certainly that he has no right to punish people forever in Hell. If the person is absolutely valuable then it follows that every moment of that person's life is as well. Therefore the person deserves only happiness in this world and in the next no matter what he or she does. Yes she or he does deserve to suffer but this deserving is blanked out by the treatment she or he deserves as a person. The doctrine of Hell shows a lack of moral sense among the Christians and just how abominable many of their doctrines are. God is an evil doctrine because it implies that a cosmic fuss should be made over the hidden and harmless but evil intentions of the heart.

If punishment is so faulty then it is worse to hurt a person to reform them. Why? Because if the punishment is bad though they ask for it and deserve it then to hurt them without thinking of what they deserve is worse because if it is bad to give a person what pain they deserve, it is worse to give them pain that is not concerned with what they deserve. This reasoning is based on the free will defence. The free will defence teaches that God gave us free will and we abuse it so evil is not his fault. Because we do bad we deserve evil. So when we suffer it is not that God wants to reform us, it is that he wants to punish us.

Religion has to say that if evil is for a divine purpose then it follows that all suffering is rooted in punishment and that is its prime purpose.

FINALLY

Do not bend the knee to twisted God's of twisted love.  If you do then can you complain if the followers of God turn violent??