HOME   People do good because they are human, not because they are religious! 

Do not give God any credit for the good they do, they did it!

 

"Not reasoned into religion so one cannot be reasoned out of it."

The danger with the saying above is that it means that it is possible to have religious faith or belief and not be reasoned into it.

We call faith a crutch.  But strictly speaking faith that is a crutch is a crutch masquerading as faith.

Faith and habit are not the same thing. 

People can wrongly believe they believe in religion.

If you cannot be reasoned out of a belief is it a case that you will not be reasoned out not that you cannot be?  It is kinder to see the person as making the wrong decision as opposed to being a victim.  You get nowhere by degrading people by seeing them as in a cage instead of empowering them to see that they can change.

To genuinely be a person of belief or faith you simply have to be genuinely reasoned into a faith or religion at least up to a point. 

For most of us, we build our religious faith on a non-religious foundation. For example, you may believe that God consoles the sick because your friend died in childhood and you cannot believe that person died without the loving presence of God.

But not everything that acts like belief really is.  Habit and assumptions and opinions are easily mistaken by a person for their beliefs.  Sometimes they do not take time to realise they do not believe.  Hope is commonly confused with belief.  Being unable to feel that your friend is lost forever is not faith but hope.

If Christians really believed in Jesus most of them would be traumatised on finding out that Jesus was not the great man he is painted out to be.  They would be traumatised at the evil and violence commanded by God and acted upon in the good book.  They would be at the clergyman's door asking some serious questions.  A wife will suffer at the realisation that all is not as it seems with her loving husband.

Many believe we are not reasoned into any particular form of faith so it is a mistake for one to endeavour to reason us out.

There are some answers to that.

Is it really faith?  If it is not taken seriously it hardly counts as faith.

You may not have been reasoned into the faith at the start but may have been sustaining faith with what you see as reason.  Thus if you are corrected on your reasoning errors you will cease to believe.

You may not have been reasoned into faith ever but what if you now learn the methods of reason and apply them?

A believer likes to pretend that logic and objections do not sway or disturb his faith.  But if they make no impact now they may in the future.  People can be taught wisdom and begin to realise it is indeed wise way on down the line.

Christianity claims it wants to make you fall in love with God.  It is like somebody who cat fishes.  Falling in love brings a lot of pain with it.  Even if it did not it would still be cruel to want people to fall in love with a God who does not exist or whose believability is weak.  Falling in love often leads to hatred and jealousy and violence and Christianity takes no responsibility for that though it should. It is bad in principle and we are surprised at how much bloodletting Christianity has done!! The faith has no genuine respect for believers so how can you expect it to be a good thing for many outsiders?  The Christians have always set up us versus them situations and that is the chief ingredient of violence and war.

Whether you are set to try to reason a person out of faith and the person believes for what he thinks are good reasons or if the person is not in any way reasoned into faith at all the starting point is always the same.  You get them to see how it is in their best interest to be right and willing to face the truth bravely. 

You hear some assertions.  Logic cannot tell if they are true.  It only tells you what follows from them.  Logic only shows an argument is valid not that it is true.  Arguments from logic that God must exist are fraudulent same as arguments that anything must exist.  Logic is tautological.  Logic is able to show that if religion claims to be logical if it is or is not.  So logic can refute a religion that is based on false claims about logic or on the abuse of logic.

This needs to be shouted: IF YOU ARE MANIPULATIVE AND AWARE THAT PEOPLE CAN BE MANIPULATED THROUGH BELIEFS YOU MUST NOT SHOW ANY SIGN OF DOUBT OR DISBELIEF WHEN SOMEBODY GIVES YOU A PROOF THAT YOUR FAITH IS MAN-MADE AND HAS ERRORS AND LIES.  THIS IS A TACTIC TO DISCOURAGE THE CRITIC OR THE OUTSPOKEN PERSON WHO KNOWS THAT SOME OR ALL OF YOUR FAITH CLAIMS ARE UNTRUE OR RIDICULOUS.  IT IS A TACTIC AIMED TO MAKE THE SCEPTIC DOUBT THEMSELVES. THE MORE SOMEBODY PRACTICES A FALSE RELIGION OR THE MORE THEY PREACH IT THE MORE THEY WILL BE SELF-TRAINED TO ACT CONFIDENT AND SURE WHEN THEY ARE IN FACT NEITHER.

FINALLY

If religious belief is irrational then it follows that the people were not reasoned into belief. Some say that you cannot be reasoned out of beliefs you were not reasoned into. Only luck then can help you. Others say you can be reasoned out but it can be a long difficult process. The latter considering how much each generation changes its mind about stuff that seemed set in stone forever before is probably the correct view. People accept this view for if they didn't nobody would bother trying to talk sense to anybody. People need help in reasoning before they can be reasoned out of anything. They need to be shown how to think coherently. But we can be sure that there are many no matter how much help they get will still accept religious nonsense. And a child or very young person will be hard to reason out of religious belief for they believe for they are conditioned and programmed to.