HOME   People do good because they are human, not because they are religious! 

Do not give God any credit for the good they do, they did it!

 

if jesus was god then he prayed to himself!


GOD CANNOT PRAY TO HIMSELF!

The gospels say that Jesus liked to pray. Jesus’ praying proves that he was not God. God does not pray to God.

Going off alone Jesus could pass the whole night in prayer. He said that it is best to pray without anybody knowing. Jesus did not pray in secret as an example for us for nobody can be sure what people are up to in private. And the whole idea of secret prayer was to keep anybody from knowing about it. That is no example. Jesus did not pray because he felt the need to for that would be hypocrisy. It would be praying for a selfish reason, for emotional gratification. If he were God he did not need to keep in touch with God for he couldn’t sin anyway or lose touch with God. It would have been no sin if he never prayed. If Jesus prayed though he didn’t need to then he was deceiving and play-acting. He would have been wiser to scrub tiles. He prayed because he needed help and strength. God the Son does not need help and strength. Jesus’ praying for Lazarus to rise (John 11) and to evade the crucifixion means that he was not God. Jesus prayed to tell us that.

If Jesus was fully God and fully man and yet one person then though he has two wills, a human and a divine one, these wills must be in total concord. The New Testament says that Jesus prayed for his Church to be one which never happened. The Church says the prayer was answered but it is our fault that the Church is divided for God did all he could to keep it together. When Christians find it so hard to come to agreement even when they are in the one sect and they squabble over the evidence for their faith I can’t see how God fulfilled Jesus’ prayer. Even the New Testament admits that it is very easy to be misled and even the saints on earth can be led astray.

He asked to be saved from the cruel death by crucifixion that was on the cards for him and then relented to ask God to do with him whatever suited God. God is outside time and cannot change his mind (Numbers 23:19) so Jesus couldn’t have been God when the two willed different things.

In John 17:9, Jesus says he does not pray for the world.

Haley says that Jesus means not at that time because John’s first epistle says that Jesus prays for the world (2:1).

But why say he does not pray for the world unless he means that he will never pray for it? You don’t get down on your knees and tell God you won’t pray for the cat but for the dog for you just pray for the dog. Why? Because why waste words saying you wont pray for the cat when you could say, “I pray for the cat.” That is all you need to say and pray. If Jesus had been good he would not have said he would not pray for the world but, “I pray for the world and now I pray…etc”. God incarnate could not say such a thing.


Conclusion
 
Jesus told us he was not God when he prayed.
 
BOOKS CONSULTED

A CALL TO HERESY, Robert Van de Weyer, Lamp Press, London, 1989
ALLEGED DISCREPANCIES OF THE BIBLE, John W Haley, Whitaker House, Pennsylvania, undated
ASKING THEM QUESTIONS, Various, Oxford University Press, London, 1936
CHRIST IS GOD, Rev JP Arendzen DD, Augustine Publishing Company, Devon, 1987
CHRIST OUR LIGHT, J Buys SJ Geoffrey Chapman and Gill & Son, London-Melbourne, Dublin 1966
CHRISTIANITY FOR THE TOUGH-MINDED Ed John Warwick Montgomery, Bethany Fellowship Inc, Minneapolis, 1973
DID JESUS CHRIST REALLY COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN? Alan Hayward, Christadelphian ALS, Birmingham
DO CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IN THREE GODS? Radio Bible Class, Grand Rapids, Michigan, 1992
EVIDENCE THAT DEMANDS A VERDICT, Vol 1, Josh McDowell, Alpha, Scripture Press Foundation, Bucks, 1995
FOUR GREAT HERESIES, John R Rice, Sword of the Lord, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, 1975
GOD AND THE HUMAN CONDITION, F J Sheed, Sheed & Ward, London 1967
HANDBOOK OF CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS, Peter Kreeft & Ronald Tacelli, Monarch, East Sussex, 1994
HERESIES AND HOW TO AVOID THEM, Editors Ben Quash and Michael Ward, SPCK, London, 2007
HONEST TO GOD, John AT Robinson, SCM Press, London, 1963
JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES John Wijngaards, Catholic Truth Society, London, 1998
JESUS GOD THE SON OR SON OF GOD? Fred Pearce Christadelphian Publishing Office, Birmingham
MERE CHRISTIANITY, CS Lewis, Fontana, Glasgow, 1975
MIRACLES, CS Lewis, Fontana, London, 1960
PRIESTLAND’S PROGRESS, Gerald Priestland, BBC, London, 1981
SCIENCE AND THE BIBLE, Henry Morris, Moody Press, Bucks, 1988
SET MY EXILES FREE, John Power, Logos Books, MH Gill & Son Ltd, Dublin, 1967
SOME MODERN FAITHS, Maurice C Burrell and J Stafford Wright, Intervarsity Press, Leicestershire, 1988
THE CASE FOR CHRIST, Lee Strobel, HarperCollins and Zondervan, Michigan, 1998
THE EARLY CHURCH, Henry Chadwick, Pelican, Middlesex, 1987
THE GODHEAD EXPLAINED, Christadelphian Press, Beverley, South Australia
THE METAPHOR OF GOD INCARNATE, John Hick, SCM Press, London, 1993
THE MYTH OF GOD INCARNATE, John Hick ed., SCM Press, London, 1977
THE NEW CULTS, Walter Martin, Vision House, Santa Ana, California, 1980
THE SPIRIT OF GOD, John Bedson, Lightstand Burbank CA 1984
THE UNAUTHORISED VERSION, Robin Lane Fox, Penguin Books, Middlesex, 1992
UNDERSTANDING THE CULTS, Josh McDowell and Don Stewart, Campus Crusade for Christ, San Bernardino, 1983
UNITARIAN CHRISTIANITY AND OTHER ESSAYS, William Ellery Channing, The Bobs-Merrill Company Inc, Kansas, 1957
YOU CAN LIVE FOREVER IN PARADISE ON EARTH, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, New York, 1982
 
THE WWW
 
http://www.kevinquick.com/kkministries/books/reasoning/nwt.html,
Kevin Quick discusses the Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the Bible never says that Jesus is God

www.easyspace.com
Gives the Jehovah’s Witness response to this site

www.gospelassemblyfree.com/facts/fathersonwayne.htm
Father and/or Son by H Wayne Hamburger